View Full Version : time-cert -vs-heilicoil
12-02-2003, 12:47 AM
my question is this,I have a head that has had a heilicoil in#3 sparkplug hole,can I use a time-cert in it or am I stuck with the heilicoil
If I can use the time-cert where can I buy em at If its against the rules to post that, would someone PM me with the info.
12-02-2003, 06:46 AM
... Craig, if the helicoil is not giving any trouble. Why not leave it alone Is the head off the engine If so you might want to carefully grind any of the end of the coil, if it is hanging in the chamber.
12-02-2003, 07:29 AM
Time sert is the best fix but after drilling and tapping for the heli coil, there may not be enough room/metal there to tap for the time sert.
12-02-2003, 10:06 AM
It seems every time I change plugs the heilicoil comes out too,thats the reason I wanted to change.or if there's a fix for that I'm all ears.the head is off the bike right now but I want it as right as I can get it before reinstaling it.
thats what I was afraid of Dave smileys/smiley6.gif
I still dont know where to buy the time-certs.I have a couple of cam cap bolts on another headthat are stripped out,if I dont use time-certs I'll have to tap em out to 1/4.
man this coming behind a hamfist with a3/4" breakover is a bummer.LOL
12-02-2003, 10:09 PM
If the head is off the bike,it might be better to weld it up and retap.
12-03-2003, 07:17 AM
The time sert uses the same thread as a helicoil. It's a standard STI ( screw thread insert ). The major difference is that the timesert is solid . after it's installed, you run a roll (form) tap through it and it expands the insert to create an interference fit. It sounds like the tapped hole may be a bit oversized if the helicoil unscrews, but if it's only slightly over,a timesert and loctite will do the trick. The installation kit is a little pricey, but it's good stuff.Go here for info:
12-03-2003, 08:42 AM
Cool avatar Bill!smileys/smiley20.gif
12-03-2003, 10:05 AM
If you have the room I personally like timesert over helicoil any day. I've always seen helicoils come unraveled. Dont forget to use anticeise(sp) cause they will rust. metal to metal instead of metal to aluminum smileys/smiley5.gifGuess how I knowsmileys/smiley1.gif
12-03-2003, 12:57 PM
THANKS Bill what you said is music to my ears.
and thanks to all the rest too,Dad always said 2 heads are better than one,but with this many heads you cant go wrongsmileys/smiley1.gif
if you are installing a Heli-coil to be used for a spark plug, be sure to use the insert that is made specifically for spark plugs, it's made out of copper (i think),if you dont use the right material you will isolate the heat being created by the plug just to the plug not into the rest of the combustion chamber
12-04-2003, 01:20 PM
Craig, I have time inserts here in the shop!! The kits a expessive like $150- $250. If you want send the head to me and I will put it in for you! About $30 Plus shipping back to you!!
12-05-2003, 09:30 AM
Outlaw,they are high!I have about every size kit they make.Wait till you need to by a component like a tap for the 6mm kit after breaking it from dropping it on the concrete floor.It's like 27 dollas and nobodySnap-On,Mac,Cornwell,ect can match one up cause it's a inbetween 1/2 mm size.I think it's like 7.5mm for the 6mm kit.
12-05-2003, 09:33 AM
Ouch! Hey Dave I bet you hang on too those taps a little tighter now!smileys/smiley3.gif
12-05-2003, 10:12 AM
If you ever need to get one of those taps again, they are available from MSC. They have a warehouse right in Atlanta. For example: a 6x1 STI tap is $14. - $ 15.
12-05-2003, 10:33 AM
MSC What does that stand for Bill I live in the Atlanta area and I do not recall that company. Where in Atlanta are they located
12-05-2003, 10:50 AM
It stands for Manhattan Supply Corp. Giant company, 5000 page catalog. 1800-645-7270 or http://mscdirect.com/.
12-06-2003, 08:38 AM
Wow Bill really! I'll keep that in mind and it's alot closer to me too.Do they have a web siteI'd hate to price the 2 step tap for the 14mm or 17mm!I think I paid like about 260.00 for the larger complete kits.Hey do yall still do 4 speeds for the old KZ dogsI am currently running a 1-2-3 semi that I cut some 10-15 odd years ago and it's doing good however thoughI was a wonderin if a 4 speed would be a better choice for my combo.It's a 1500cc motor getting a modest amount of "throttle ina bottle" shot to it.11" rear tire and the bike and rider weighs in at just a little over 500 pounds.Most of my racing is done on 1/8th mile tracks.You reckon a 4 speed would be the best for thisget upDave
12-06-2003, 09:01 AM
... Guys, MSC is probably best know for their catalogs, with fast shipping. They also have store locations and I am sure a web site.
12-16-2003, 04:37 PM
I know this is a bit late, but NAPA has an insert that is closer to a timesert than a helicoil. It is one piece and not a coil. It doesn't stay in much better than a helicoil but won't unwind. The anaerobic adhesive they supply with the inserts doesn't work as well as Loctite red...
01-01-2004, 07:58 PM
Thanks george,I looked on napa's web site and I see what you mean.which insert do you buy short, med or long the head had a coil in it so I wont have to get the kit.smileys/smiley4.gif
01-01-2004, 09:30 PM
... Craig, just take the proper plug in to the store and or measure the reach. If I did not have the head off I would get the one that is about even to a half a thread back as measured with the plug gasket. In any event I would want the sert just shy of the alumnium on both sides.
01-15-2004, 03:07 PM
Sorry for the delay in the reply... haven't been hitting message boards much recently. You will need the long insert and it needs to be cut down just a tad. If you have the head off, you will see the long insert protrudes out into the combustion chamber a tad and the short one doesn't have enough thread... following the plug reach will give you a real good idea that the short ones are way too short and the long ones are a shade too long.
01-15-2004, 07:50 PM
thanks for all the input guys! smileys/smiley4.gif
01-16-2004, 08:24 AM
George,I believe they offer 3 different lengths for the 14 mm inserts if memory serves me correctly.I'll look when in the shop today but, I'm about positive they do.Dave/FastKaw
02-01-2004, 11:02 AM
... Just saw this in the latest Kitplanes magazine. This co.has some type of backeewaumpus toolkit for repairing sparkplug threads with the head on. Supposedly catches all the chips. Go to:
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