hsr45 or s&s carb?

[turbosteve1]

I HAVE A HSR45 CARB ON A GSXR 1216 DRAW
THRU AND DONT RIDE IT ON THE STREET SOME
PEOPLE HAVE SAID THE S&S IS A BEETER CARB
FOR THE TRACK IS THIS TRUE THE BIKE HAS
WENT 8.40 AT 168MPH

[turbosteve1]

40 PEOPLE VEIWED MY POST PLEASE VOICE
YOUR OPINION I NEED HELP THANK YOU.

[rajay]

On the track IT DOES NOT MATTER. On the street the Mikuni will win EVERYTIME. Just keep the floatbowl full on either carburetor and you will be fine. Be carefull when people say how fast they have gone with S&S ARE Mikuni, some forget to mention the pucket load of nitrous they were using to do it. Look in the "turbo" history for this same subject. I asked it over a year ago and you will see many replies................


http://www.dragbike.com/forum/forum_posts.aspTID=1549&P N=3Edited by: rajay

[Maulerman]

Okay, Okay, please be patient some of us are slow typists. LOL. Here is my input on the carb situation. I have a turbo GS with an S&S Super B. I struggled getting it tuned correctly for quite awhile, this was due in part to bad tuning advice from others with dozens of years of turbo experience.


If your bike is already running 8.40's with a Mikuni chances are you will not gain enough performance, or any for that matter, to justify the expense of an S&S carb. If you can get one cheap and you're like me and can never leave well enough alone than by all means give it a shot.


When it comes to tuning the S&S do not take anybody's advice that is contrary to what you think and what you see. I was told to richen the jetting onmine by guys who had decades of turbo experience when it needed to be leaned out a whole bunch. It was fouling plugs and these guys kept telling me to fatten it up. My major fault was listening to these boneheads. Every bike is different and there are few if any hard and fast rules of tuning turbos.


I hope this helps


Matt

[turbosteve1]

ok if i keep hsr45 what jetting and needle and seat
pressure and fuel pressure, i am already drilling out
jets way big almost to the 1/8 inch drill bit size thats
why i wondered if the s&s would be different and
offer more fuel to the turbo just seems like it wants
more and more fuel and by the way 8.40 without
spray i want 8.00 this year.

[rajay]

Thats a Mikuni size 3.175! I feel your needle and pilot jetting is way lean. I know of 7 second Mikuni HSR42mm's with 2.10 main jets also. I found drilling jets DO NOT offer the flow consistency as a properly machinedMikuni or S&Sjet. If you ONLY raced(wide open throttle 99.99% of the time) and/or added a Funny Bike size of nitrous, none of the rich full flow chrarectoristics would matter because with that much oxygen in the combustion chamber, anything would burn. That Mikuni HSR45 has a bore about the size as a S&S Super D at the smallest point (throat) where the butterfly is located. Also the Mikuni does not have the butterfly in the middle of the bore to impead air flow. The Mikuni will out flow a Super D if you put both on a flow bench and text at the same conditions. Go to www.bigccracing.com (http://www.bigccracing.com) and look at there 408hp Suzuki GSX1500 draw through (NO NITROUS) and with STOCK cams.

[rajay]

http://bigccracing.com/images/newpaintgsx1500.jpg

[Tim Rinkerman]

I've gone 7.90's at 170 with a Mikuni RS 42 with a 220 main jet, and 7.70's at 175+ with a 44 Lectron in a draw through 1425 Kawi with no nitrous in a 700# package. I tried a Super D, and could not get the off the line response I wanted, but it did go 178 mph.A smaller carb atomizes fuel better and gives more power for the amount of fuel you put in, compared to a bigger one blubbering fuel in...lean gives you acceleration whereas fatter will give you more top speed once you get moving.


At least that's the way it works for me....

I love those old Katana's rajay! Way cool bike!


I built a turbocharged old Rickman for a good friend a few years ago. Thinking he was going to race it only with wheelie bars, I put the S&S carb on it specifically for the turbo application. This bike friggen screwed with that carb on it! I mean at 9 pounds of boost it made close to 290 RWHP on my dyno! Come to find out, he is going to also drive it on the street and the S&S carb is definately not a good street carb. We put the HSR45 Mikuni on it and it is very docile for street riding and only lost 3.5 HP at peak.


If you are more interested in street manners, go with the Mikuni. Race only, definately the S&S!





Freddie

[Marion Ford]

I have been switching all my customers to lectrons for the last year here and they are all very satisfied. All of them that race went faster and all on the street said the drivability was about the same with slightly more response. 40s for the 1200s and down, 44s or 46s for the larger bikes and 50s for the dragbikes with big eng and nitrous.

[squirt]

Gotta agree with Freddie, the s/s makes a terrible street carb but we have (track only) an old suz gs gas (no nos!) draw through out here in the northwest thats goin low 7.40's @190+ with the super d and thats carrying the extra lbs to make legal wt as well as a 10" tire max.Â*Â*&n bsp;trust me, the guy dosen't know crap about tuning either... smileys/smiley3.gif and is over the hill...Curious,,,d oes anyone know what the best #'s are for this application was it hahn or crippen or Edited by: squirt

I have been switching all my customers to lectrons for the last year here and they are all very satisfied. All of them that race went faster and all on the street said the drivability was about the same with slightly more response. 40s for the 1200s and down, 44s or 46s for the larger bikes and 50s for the dragbikes with big eng and nitrous.


Marion... I put one on a 1327cc Suzuki Funnybike witha draw through system. The rider was 295 pounds and it ran 7.09/190.XX MPH! His previous best with an HSR45 that I bored to 47mm was 7.19/182.XX MPH.The Tronwas worth 1 tenth and 8 to 9 MPH!


Definately worth the investment!


Freddie Klies

[Tim Rinkerman]

The best part is you don't have to spend a fortune in jets to tune them....I'm putting the finishing touches on a dual 40mm. Lectron draw thru manifold...

[Marc Powe]

Gotta agree with Freddie, the s/s makes a terrible street carb but we have (track only) an old suz gs gas (no nos!) draw through out here in the northwest thats goin low 7.40's @190+ with the super d and thats carrying the extra lbs to make legal wt as well as a 10" tire max.&a mp;a mp;a mp;n bsp;trust me, the guy dosen't know crap about tuning either... smileys/smiley3.gif and is over the hill...Curious,,,d oes anyone know what the best #'s are for this application was it hahn or crippen or


Steve,


Hahn Jr. told me he went a 7.28 e.t. with the draw/thru using the S&S. This was years ago. Also........you can over carb a draw/thru. Edited by: Marc Powe

[turbosteve1]

OK HERES THE DEAL I HAVE A 1987 GSXR1100
1216 TURBO MOTOR 68" WHEEL BASE ,
SHOOTOUT TIRE OLD RAYJAY MR TURBO SETUP
HSR45 3.5 NEEDLE AND SEAT 260 MAIN JET,
HOLLEY RED PUMP, DAIL REG.3.5 PSI, THE BIKE
RUNS GREAT AT 10-15PSI ALITTLE ON THE LEAN
SIDE IF I TURN THE BOOST UP PAST 15PSI STAND
CLEAR BIG BACK FIRE THRU THE CARB AND
PLUGS WHITE WAY LEAN TOP OF 3RD GEAR THIS
HAPPENS AND STILL WENT 8.40 COASTING THRU
LIGHTS AND LOW MPH CAUSE OF BACKFIRE, BY
THE WAY I DONT TAKE TIMING OUT CAUSE TERRY
AT MR TURBO SAYS THE STOCK SUZUKI BLACK
BOX WITH A MSD 2 BOOSTER TAKES IT OUT
AUTOMATICLY FINALLY AND ALL THE TRYING
DIFFERANT THINGS I MELTED THE PISTONS AND
HEAT CRACKED THE HEAD AND CRACKED THE
CRANK IN 4 SPOTS ,,, OUCH, I HAVE AN ALL NEW
MOTOR FOR 2006 AND DONT WANT IT 2 HAPPEN
AGAIN BUT WANT TO GO FASTER SAFELY THATS
WAY I THOUGHT THE HSR45 MIGHT BE THE
PROBLEM smileys/smiley5.gif

[turbosteve1]

HAS ANYONE ELSE HAD THIS PROBLEM IF SO
WHAT WAS IT AND HOW DID YOU CORRECT IT.

[rajay]

I hope you have a #95Y needle. This is the richest needle available. Your main jet size tells me you are looking for more fuel up top however, if the needle is too large the fuel will not be able to flow past it and out the main jet. 32.5 pilot, #95Y needle and a 2.00 main is my current set up. 1425cc, 4 valve 125cfm head, 36* ignition timing pulling nothing out up to 9,500 rpm, Cam II 110 octane gas and 15lbs boost. Rajay EF60 638CFM compressor, Holley Red pump and I use the standard needle/seat 4.2 I think. It will only take 2.5-3 psi of fuel pressure.

[Maulerman]

I do not have a Mukuni so I will not attempt advice on that carb. However, I had a long battle with my bike leaning out at the 1/8th mile regardless of boost. I changed nearly everything in the fuel system, when I finally go around to changing the fuel pump my problem disappeared. This is just a thought but you might be needing more fuel than that pump can deliver when you crank up the boost. Also, I have been told, byTerry Kizer himself, that the Holley regulators are erratic. He recommended the cheap round chrome ones by Mr. Gasket. I run one now but I will soon change to a recirculating type fuel system. Just something to ponder.


I am sorry for your misfortune, I was lucky and just squeaked one piston after dozens of passes leaning out at half track.

[GJG1]

I am setting up a 1216 turbo as well and talked this very morning to the guy that runs BigCC racing in the <st1:country-regi&#111;n><st1:place>UK</st1:place></st1:country-regi&#111;n> and who prepped the carb for me. I asked him some tuning tips.

He could not emphasize enough the importance of having an elaborate fuel line system throughout. Nowhere, he said, should there be a restriction less than 4mm. Check filter(s), tap, ANYTHING. He even had some custom fuel joints machined for on the side as the angular shaped OEM one could be to restrictive…

Also he had the fuel pressure turned up while racing so much, the carb puked the fuel out through the overflow and they where using catch tanks not to faul the strip.

He had some 400hp+ streetbikes running few years back doing low 8’s. When they eventually took one to Elvington airfield for 200mph+ runs they cracked the head of one. Seems running HSR’s is walking a thin line.

[jackinzoar]

S&S "turbo" ,B or D have a seperate fuel inlet in addition to the needle and seat , dumps fuel to the bowl controlled by throttle position , these carbs also include an over flow you run back to the tank ,in essence , when WFO your float level is irrelevant ,the overflow insures correct level

[Maulerman]

Jackinzoar is correct about the S&amp;S "turbo" style carbs. The auxiliary fuel inlet is controlled by throttle opening through an adjustable cam. It makes the carb very flexible. However,I thought I'd mention one pointabout the overflow. If your fuel tank is above the carb the overflow must be piped to a separate overflow tank. Fluids find the path of least resistance and will flood the carb before they will travel uphill to the fuel tank.


Just an attempt to help someone not make the same mistakes I made. My favorite saying is "experience is the second best teacher, someone else's experience is the best teacher"

[turbosteve1]

SO S&S MAKES A TURBO CARB WITH AN
AUXILIARY FUEL INLET AND IF SO HOW DOES
THAT WORK DO YOU USE A SEPERATE FUEL
PUMP IF IT WORKS ON A THROTTLE POSITION
WHAT HAPPENS WHEN I AM 2STEPPING AT
8OR9,000 RPM WIDE OPEN THROTTLE IS BOTH
FUEL FEEDS GOING 2 BE DUMPING FUEL IN THE
CARB

[geek]

When I called S&amp;S, I was told they no longer made the turbo
carb. None in stock. The big problem I saw was with the
secondary feed. If you launch on a 2-step, WOT, that secondary
feed is going to be way too much. The carb was designed before
the 2-step. Other problem is that it was designed to be
gravity fed. I see a lot of turbo bikes running them
still.



I was using a modified Keihin on methanol, but have switched to
gasoline with an HSR42. I put about 7 pounds of fuel pressure on
it and it tends to leak out the overflow from time to time but never
seems to lean out. Its a nice carb, but people keep asking me
why I have Harley parts on my Suzuki.

[jackinzoar]

just a guess but I believe if you wanted either a B or D turbo carb you could still get one since they are nothing more than the fuel carb with the passages drilled smaller