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Thread: Turbos? worth it or not?

  1. #1
    ed_spr
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    would like to hear the pro and cons for turbos. am more interested in the cons. seems that unless you have access to a dyno they are something that is never REALLY tuneable. and plenty of folks wish they never got involved with a turbo.anyone know of a GOOD manufacturer for bike turbos with the CC's being in the 1400+ range. Most guys just want to sell you a system and then the heck with you after that. Burnt pistons, blown gaskets, etc., etc., etc. "IT IS "YOUR" dumbass fault. Thinking of building a pro series bike with a 1400+ cc motor. and I know nothing about turbos. I like the idea but have heard some REAL horror stories!



  2. #2

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    ED, IF YOU ARE LOOKING FOR A GOOD SYSTEM - ALL THE GUYS MAKING THEM ARE DECENT SYSTEMS. IF YOU HAVE A NEWER FI BIKE I WOULD USE NEXT LEVEL RACING OR VELOCITY. - IF YOU HAVE A FULL OUT DRAG BIKE YOU ARE KINDA ON YOUR OWN. HAHN WILL STILL MAKE A KIT (FI) IF YOUR GOOD AT ASS KISSING OR IF YOU HAVE THE MONEY SUPERKAOS.COM OR EFR WILL HAND MAKE ONE. AS FAR AS TUNING YES YOU DO HAVE TO SPEND SOME TIME WITH YOUR BIKE. AS FAR AS ENGINE DAMAGE, ITS NO MORE THAN SETTING UP AND TUNING NOS. WHAT ARE THE HORROR STORIES YOU HEARD ABOUT TURBOS

  3. #3
    Kris
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    I have a 1150 with a 1429 7.8-1 comp with a Mr.Turbo set up. I had no one to help but it is very tuneable without a dyno. If you want to squeeze all the power out of a turbo then a dyno is for you. It took a whole season to make that thing work but once I got it I will NEVER go back to naturaly asparated. Every thing you do too these bikes has pro`s and con`s,here is a con,when you run a turbo you MAY get more oil leakage out of the engine,heres another,you have to run a lock up clutch or a slider to handle the power. Most of this is the same as any power adder setup there are risks,oh yea turbos initial cost is PRICEY[img]smileys/smiley3.gif[/img]. Once you get by that it is well worth it as an racing investment(and they sound cool!). Send an e-mail to me if you need help setting up a system,thats more than I got,Kris.[img]smileys/brutal_46.gif[/img]

  4. #4
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    Only thing cooler than watching/hearing a Funnybike launch is a Nitro bike.


    Dick (GOT NITRO?) Boxell
    Welcome to the Dark Side....
    (Hell, I used to Race....)

  5. #5
    Junior Member Marc Powe's Avatar
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    I agree with Dick Boxell and Mickey D.


    You are gonna have to spend some time with EFI and MFI. Your resources to guys who have been extremely succesful with FI is going to be limited..........and your gonna have to pay. This is why I choose to contine tweaking a draw/thru set up.





    NuSouth Drag Racing Leauge, LLC
    www.ndrl.us

  6. #6
    ed_spr
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    Okay this is what I have gathered so far from reading between the lines. A draw threw system is for carbs, and the other type is for FI. Is this correct 1st attempt at doing this I do not want to waste a lot of time and money screwing around with a computer system for injectors. Maybe after some MUCH needed expierence but not the 1st season. So which system am I looking for Anyone with EXPIERENCE that can point inthe correct direction as far as size, mfg., intial carb. sizes, etc. I know all engines run different and beleive it or not I am not a complete dummie. I have a lot of expierence with cars, old school blowers, but this is going to be a 1st as far as a bike and turbo. So I obviously need all the help I can get. Mikey D asked [above] what kind of horror stories I have heard/seen. Well I have personally seen melted pistons, melted cylinders, melted valves,blown gaskets, crank case ventilation problems, and just out right NEVER getting the bike to run right. Issues like won't idle, different RPM power loss's, all around tuning issues. I know a lot of these problems may have come from a LEAN situation or timing issues. But isn't there a "SAFE" place to startI am not scared to purchase what ever I need. But I only want to do it one time. I don't want to spend 1/2 of the season threw trial and error, just to wear out or blown upthe motor before I can ever get down the track as quick as it should. Thats why I am asking for HANDS on EXPIERENCE before I start buying! I know the engine is going to be a Kaw. at least a 1425, [but prefer larger].Should I use a 1100 GPZ head I have heard they flow better than the "J" models. [I know about the cam chain issues.] What compression ration is needed Any preferance in rings Cam size Carb., size/s, and any perferrable manufacturer And what about NOSHas anyone ever tried "O"ringing the essential areas instead of gaskets I know on a blower car this helps out more than anything when it comes to sealing things up tight.The frame is a car tire [10"], air shifter, auto 1,2,3. Useing a Kozman front end and wheel. PLEASE any web pages available that may have some help for meYou guys have helped me out a lot so far but I just need more specific information PLEASE!Of course you guys know this is an expensive ordeal, I am just trying to go about this with some insight, and knowledge. Which I obviously have to depend on hands on expierence to gain.









  7. #7

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    Ed,


    I run a 1400 Kaw turbo and have blown up a lot of stuff, usually being stupid and trying to do stuff that shouldnt be done. All that aside here is my combo 1393 MTC pistons (7.8-1), z-3 cams degreed at 112 in 114 ex, stock Gpz head, S&S super E carb with an 89 main jet, as for the lower end I use a P.O.S. falicon crank (switching to HMP), an Orient 3 spd tranny (highly recommended), an MTC lockup clutch. Now for theignition, I run a Dyna 4000sp with the two stage retard, stage one is triggered by second gear, stage two is triggered by a boost switch set at 15 pounds.I set my static at 28 degrees and pullout 4 for the first stage and 6 for the second. As for the turbo I use a Garret T3-T4 ( the only way to go!) and the system I made myself except for the head pipe and intake manifold whichare old ATP stuff.


    This combo was my top gas set up and has been 8.04 at 165 with a total wieght of 710 pounds and 22 pounds of boost.


    Hope this helps. John Walzel
    \"Well remember what you said because in a day or two I\'ll have a witty and blistering retort. You\'ll be devastated then I promise\" Calvin

  8. #8
    Junior Member Marc Powe's Avatar
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    Ed,


    Where do you live Is there a well know high formance dragbike shop near you What kind of numbers are you wanting to achieve So, your saying that you want a draw thru carb system. Keep in mind EFI MFI and Dra/Thru's are completely different systems. If you decide to go EFI or MFI you will basically be buying another complete system later on. If you decide to go with a draw thru system Bill Hahn Jr and Mr Turbo (Terry Kizer) make systems for these applications. Or likemyself and John W you can piece a system together. They all are pieced together they don't come hatched.....(smile). I've had a complete Mr. Turbo set up with a Rajay and Now I have parts from an old ATP set up utilizing a T3/T4 Garrett.If you purchase a draw thru system off the shelf it will be set up for a Rajay. I do not recommend using the Rajay. You will have to modify the wrap around pipe to accept a Garrett. I would use an S&S 2 1/4 Carb. The GPZ Head is a good choice. You really don't need to run a motor larger than a 1425. When running a larger bore your going to get very thin areas in the cases around the cylinder studs, especially the 4 center studs. I'd rather have more meat in the cases. With Turbo's you will find that 100cc's either way does not make that big of a difference if any. I've had 1135cc motors to make just as much hp as some peoples 1400cc motors. My Blocks are copper O ringed but I know others who havesetups. I've used some .385 lift cams in my smaller motor however I'm going to run larger ones in my new engine and I will be running NOS. Some Web .418 lift cams would be sporty. If your running a GPZ tranny it will hold for awhile however this depends on how much power you plan on pushing. I now have an Orient 3 speed because I'm going to a 1394 MTC and I'm going to run a single stage progressive NOS set up. I use a Dyna 4000 as well however you can pick an ignition of your choice, MSD, Schnitz box etc. So, Let us know first of all what kind of E.T.'s your expecting. I hope this helps as well. I can help with getting you a Garrett turbo built if this is what you decide to do. [img]smileys/smiley2.gif[/img]
    NuSouth Drag Racing Leauge, LLC
    www.ndrl.us

  9. #9
    Junior Member Marc Powe's Avatar
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    Ed,


    One more thing. You know from experience with Blowers and cars etc, that anytime you use a boosting agent such as turbo's , blowers and NOS you run a higher chance of melting parts if you don't have your tune up correct. I've seen just as many NOS bikes destroy parts just as fast as any turbo can. It's just that over the years that has been more R&D done with NOS systems than turbo systems such as EFI and MFI. Not to mention there are more guys running NOS now more than ever. So, the big time tuners of NOS such as Vose, Franko etc, has had alot of customers to do trial and error. If you decide to run MFI, I would find Rick Stetson Gary Clark or the Rice burner (Steve Rice). If your gonna run EFI, I would find Bryan Bennett. However many of us don't have the luxury or the money to drive our bikes across country but if you want to avoid the melt downs, this is what you would have to do.


    NuSouth Drag Racing Leauge, LLC
    www.ndrl.us

  10. #10
    ed_spr
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    Okay you guys have been a wealth of information! THANK YOU! And now I am REALLY cofused...LOL. Someone tell me what the anticapated horse power difference is useing a F. I. system compaired to a carb. Isthe extra horsepowerbecause the CC is typically larger useing a F. I. engine I don't want to loose site of my original game plan. BUT I do want toget everyadvantageI can. I am not finacially burried in ANY engine at the moment, but I do have the cases, !!)) GPZ head, and thats about it as far as engine componets. So it would be easy at this point to change engines if I see fit to do so. I just hate the thought of screwing around with a computer system. { F I } and all the extra potentially confuseing componets. Is there a builder out there that builds a turbo motor and Dyno's it BEFORE he sends it out Any web pages or phone numbers would be help full! My anticapated time is 7.50 - 8.0's. Is a FI bike really needed to accomplish this


    OPINONS PLEASE !

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